Ath. Just the opposite, as I said, of the opinion which onceprevailed among men, that the sun and stars are without soul. Evenin those days men wondered about them, and that which is nowascertained was then conjectured by some who had a more exactknowledge of them-that if they had been things without soul, and hadno mind, they could never have moved with numerical exactness sowonderful; and even at that time some ventured to hazard theconjecture that mind was the orderer of the universe. But these samepersons again mistaking the nature of the soul, which they conceivedto be younger and not older than the body, once more overturned theworld, or rather, I should say, themselves; for the bodies whichthey saw moving in heaven all appeared to be full of stones, andearth, and many other lifeless substances, and to these theyassigned the causes of all things. Such studies gave rise to muchatheism and perplexity, and the poets took occasion to beabusive-comparing the philosophers to she-dogs uttering vain howlings,and talking other nonsense of the same sort. But now, as I said, thecase is reversed.
Cle. How so?
Ath. No man can be a true worshipper of the Gods who does not knowthese two principles-that the soul is the eldest of all things whichare born, and is immortal and rules over all bodies; moreover, as Ihave now said several times, he who has not contemplated the mind ofnature which is said to exist in the stars, and gone through theprevious training, and seen the connection of music with these things,and harmonized them all with laws and institutions, is not able togive a reason of such things as have a reason. And he who is unable toacquire this in addition to the ordinary virtues of a citizen, canhardly be a good ruler of a whole state; but he should be thesubordinate of other rulers. Wherefore, Cleinias and Megillus, letus consider whether we may not add to all the other laws which we havediscussed this further one-that the nocturnal assembly of themagistrates, which has also shared in the whole scheme of educationproposed by us, shall be a guard set according to law for thesalvation of the state. Shall we propose this?
Cle. Certainly, my good friend, we will if the thing is in anydegree possible.
Ath. Let us make a common effort to gain such an object; for I toowill gladly share in the attempt. Of these matters I have had muchexperience, and have often considered them, and I dare say that Ishall be able to find others who will also help.
Cle. I agree, Stranger, that we should proceed along the road inwhich God is guiding us; and how we can proceed rightly has now tobe investigated and explained.
Ath. O Megillus and Cleinias, about these matters we cannotlegislate further until the council is constituted; when that is done,then we will determine what authority they shall have of their own;but the explanation of how this is all to be ordered would only begiven rightly in a long discourse.
Cle. What do you mean, and what new thing is this?
Ath. In the first place, a list would have to be made out of thosewho by their ages and studies and dispositions and habits are wellfitted for the duty of a guardian. In the next place, it will not beeasy for them to discover themselves what they ought to learn, orbecome the disciple of one who has already made the discovery.
Furthermore, to write down the times at which, and during which,they ought to receive the several kinds of instruction, would be avain thing; for the learners themselves do not know what is learned toadvantage until the knowledge which is the result of learning hasfound a place in the soul of each. And so these details, although theycould not be truly said to be secret, might be said to be incapable ofbeing stated beforehand, because when stated they would have nomeaning.
Cle. What then are we to do, Stranger, under these circumstances?
Ath. As the proverb says, the answer is no secret, but open to allof us:-We must risk the whole on the chance of throwing, as theysay, thrice six or thrice ace, and I am willing to share with youthe danger by stating and explaining to you my views about educationand nurture, which is the question coming to the surface again. Thedanger is not a slight or ordinary one, and I would advise you,Cleinias, in particular, to see to the matter; for if you orderrightly the city of the Magnetes, or whatever name God may give it,you will obtain the greatest glory; or at any rate you will be thoughtthe most courageous of men in the estimation of posterity. Dearcompanions, if this our divine assembly can only be established, tothem we will hand over the city; none of the present company oflegislators, as I may call them, would hesitate about that. And thestate will be perfected and become a waking reality, which a littlewhile ago we attempted to create as a dream and in idea only, minglingtogether reason and mind in one image, in the hope that our citizensmight be duly mingled and rightly educated; and being educated, anddwelling in the citadel of the land, might become perfect guardians,such as we have never seen in all our previous life, by reason ofthe saving virtue which is in them.
Meg. Dear Cleinias, after all that has been said, either we mustdetain the Stranger, and by supplications and in all manner of waysmake him share in the foundation of the city, or we must give up theundertaking.
Cle. Very true, Megillus; and you must join with me in detaininghim.
Meg. I will.
—THE END—